Conor Friedersdorf

Conor Friedersdorf @conor64

@VictoriaDahl @Popehat Well, I would say that the civic norm was stronger for everyone, even if varying among them, in the years immediately before 9/11 than immediately after, and stronger in the first years of the Obama Administration than in the last years. — PolitiTweet.org

Conor Friedersdorf @conor64

The New York Times editorial board makes errors from time to time. And makes what many of us regard as untenable positive liberty claims from time to time. But most of those don't generate calls for the authors to resign. Interesting that this editorial has. — PolitiTweet.org

Conor Friedersdorf @conor64

@JamesSurowiecki Highly recommend The Unnatural History of the Sea for a similarly depressing account of how even the 19th century oceans and rivers were much diminished from their pre-Age of Explorers state — PolitiTweet.org

Conor Friedersdorf @conor64

@thatlauraruby If the problem is even worse than my formulation suggests isn't than even more reason to talk about this problem? — PolitiTweet.org

Conor Friedersdorf @conor64

@Popehat @EoinHiggins_ I suppose, but I've read a lot of articles complaining about various incidents of "cancel culture" and I've yet to read one complaining about consequences for denigrating others with racial slurs. — PolitiTweet.org

Conor Friedersdorf @conor64

@adamdavidson What threshold of examples must such a piece meet to change your view? — PolitiTweet.org

Conor Friedersdorf @conor64

RT @carljackmiller: When we say Kyiv is winning the information war, far too often we only mean information spaces we inhabit. Pulling ap… — PolitiTweet.org

Conor Friedersdorf @conor64

@NGrossman81 Yes. Can you enumerate the most common violations of this standard? — PolitiTweet.org

Conor Friedersdorf @conor64

@EoinHiggins_ @Popehat Because the taboo against using racial slurs is among the few I agree with--part of the larger category of *substance-free denigration of others for immutable characteristics* that is a rightfully settled question and impinges not at all on what Rauch calls liberal science — PolitiTweet.org

Conor Friedersdorf @conor64

What is the best food in downtown SLO? — PolitiTweet.org

Conor Friedersdorf @conor64

Best coast. https://t.co/IQC5vVYzUU — PolitiTweet.org

Conor Friedersdorf @conor64

One would think the phrase "an even more extreme version of" in the quotes passage would signify that the newspaper was not "equating" the two things. — PolitiTweet.org

Conor Friedersdorf @conor64

RT @Popehat: We’re talking a lot these days about whether social shaming/shunning is worse now than it has been in the past — whether it’s… — PolitiTweet.org

Conor Friedersdorf @conor64

Wait the A didn't just stand for accountability culture? — PolitiTweet.org

Conor Friedersdorf @conor64

@paint771 @ScottGreenfield @kcjohnson9 If the NYT editorial board did indeed intend to advance a positive liberty claim that's wildly untenable it would not shock me — PolitiTweet.org

Conor Friedersdorf @conor64

I wonder to what degree the Gen X and Xennial allergy to shaming and stigma pileons come not only from coming of age in a relatively tolerant era, but also watching the awful shift from that era to post 9/11 shaming and stigma pileons. — PolitiTweet.org

Conor Friedersdorf @conor64

@Popehat There were, of course, things you couldn't say in 1998, though, and insofar as that was your point, I agree with it. — PolitiTweet.org

Conor Friedersdorf @conor64

@Popehat exposed to a thing they don't wish to tolerate and enabled in their desire to strike back by the ease of, say, snitch tagging the employer of the author. — PolitiTweet.org

Conor Friedersdorf @conor64

@Popehat probably had readers who would tolerate such things, at least to the degree that they weren't going to write letters to your employer. Now, a piece published for an audience of The Stranger might also suddenly find itself Tweeted by Candace Owens, whose followers would be both — PolitiTweet.org

Conor Friedersdorf @conor64

@Popehat I am not sure to what degree those are norm changes (say, pre-digital and IRL norms versus online norms, which are very different) and to what degree it's the tech, not the norms that matter. So in 1998, a media outlet willing to publish an oped of the sort you describe — PolitiTweet.org

Conor Friedersdorf @conor64

@Popehat That's a complicated question. The post 9/11 spike of shaming and shunning was due to a familiar wartime dynamic with lots of analogs in bygone periods. What we are seeing now, compared to 1998, is different in large part because of changes in technology and media, and — PolitiTweet.org

Conor Friedersdorf @conor64

@ijbailey @Popehat It is certainly allowed! — PolitiTweet.org

Conor Friedersdorf @conor64

@Popehat Prior to that gets into what I am told rather than what I remember, so I leave it to my elders. — PolitiTweet.org

Conor Friedersdorf @conor64

@Popehat With an emphasis on "prevailed" as distinct from "completely governing" I would say that the norms I am describing were probably strongest from roughly 1996 to 2001 and from 2007 to 2014. — PolitiTweet.org

Conor Friedersdorf @conor64

@jbarro @Popehat Yes, I agree. Part of why I don't assume disingenuousness is knowing how this mode of writing often goes. — PolitiTweet.org

Conor Friedersdorf @conor64

@ijbailey @HankGreene @adamdavidson Nothing *as a hard rule* but as an impulse indulged excessively what's wrong is atomization fueled by lack of tolerance and forebearance. I don't mean to out all that on Adam--I am a fan!--just articulating my larger concern — PolitiTweet.org

Conor Friedersdorf @conor64

@Popehat The norm is certainly the exception rather than the norm in human history, though I would say it's a wonderful and hugely valuable exception and that times and places where it held should be celebrated — PolitiTweet.org

Conor Friedersdorf @conor64

@Popehat Yes, I suppose so. I think "free speech" is unfortunately used as shorthand for different things that are all goods but analytically, functionally, and legally distinct, and when confusion arises I tend to think that is its source rather than disingenuousness. — PolitiTweet.org

Conor Friedersdorf @conor64

What that NYT editorial should have said up top, in my estimation: *Americans are losing hold of a civic norm with great value in a diverse, pluralistic democracy: the ability to speak their minds and voice their opinions in public without fear of being shamed or shunned.* — PolitiTweet.org

Conor Friedersdorf @conor64

@Popehat It's unfortunate that they either expressed themselves badly or have wrongheaded views on that point, but the editorial had many other claims besides. — PolitiTweet.org