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Zack Beauchamp @zackbeauchamp
RT @LaurenBohn: I’ll never forget when I interned for ABC News in college and one afternoon Chris was just lounging back in a chair in an o… — PolitiTweet.org
Zack Beauchamp @zackbeauchamp
@LaurenBohn omfg — PolitiTweet.org
Zack Beauchamp @zackbeauchamp
If you’re looking for a place to give on Giving Tuesday and care about speech and language issues, please consider @ChatSpeech - a wonderful organization my sister runs that helps underprivileged kids access vital speech therapy https://t.co/jPaOTqtPsy — PolitiTweet.org
Zack Beauchamp @zackbeauchamp
@ryanlcooper Well then we have a lot bigger problems than Senator Quack — PolitiTweet.org
Zack Beauchamp @zackbeauchamp
@ryanlcooper Barring a very strong pro-GOP tilt in 2022 (possible!), Fetterman would crush him — PolitiTweet.org
Zack Beauchamp @zackbeauchamp
@MattBruenig @SamAdlerBell Assuming basic factual accuracy — lying and falsehoods are bad, imo — the specific stories you choose to tell matter. Also, separately, I think some people (not 1619) have gone way overboard with anti-Founder sentiment — PolitiTweet.org
Zack Beauchamp @zackbeauchamp
@MattBruenig @SamAdlerBell This is running together a bunch of different things I'm not trying to talk about, like school curricula. But my basic view is that different mythologies serve different ideological functions and thus should be considered differently — PolitiTweet.org
Zack Beauchamp @zackbeauchamp
The problem with people on the internet is that think they know you but they don't. My maternal grandparents are both survivors — which I said at the *beginning of the thread* this person is criticizing. I grew up with my grandfather living in my house. — PolitiTweet.org
Zack Beauchamp @zackbeauchamp
@MattBruenig @SamAdlerBell And interesting empirical question, what I've read suggests the former — PolitiTweet.org
Zack Beauchamp @zackbeauchamp
@SamAdlerBell I dunno about "slightest hint" — arguments like these have been around for a while and the review felt very familiar. I find them tiresome and net harmful, and said why: I don't know if that's condemnation. Appreciate the compliment, btw — really liked your new TNR piece — PolitiTweet.org
Zack Beauchamp @zackbeauchamp
@SamAdlerBell I don't see why this version of "hysteria" is an argument for why "books like Samet's are necessary." On the contrary, it seems like a reason to be suspicious of it — unless you have a priori view that Jewish views on the importance of Holocaust memory are suspect — PolitiTweet.org
Zack Beauchamp @zackbeauchamp
@djw172 Right, which is why the thread argues for (a version of) the latter grounded in the former — PolitiTweet.org
Zack Beauchamp @zackbeauchamp
@SamAdlerBell Hysteria, really? I used sharp language to be sure but that’s because I find the project in works like this troubling. I don’t think any of it was unreasonable — PolitiTweet.org
Zack Beauchamp @zackbeauchamp
The key insight in this piece — that education polarization is creating a new generation of radicalized young conservatives who feel even more besieged in elite spaces— is really sharp https://t.co/Ly9HQbNV0i — PolitiTweet.org
Zack Beauchamp @zackbeauchamp
@varsha_venkat_ I totally agree, and your scholarship sounds fascinating! What bothers me more is something like the book in the review, which explicitly argues that American historical memory of WWII enables bad wars today so needs to be rewritten to emphasize the US entry's negative aspects. — PolitiTweet.org
Zack Beauchamp @zackbeauchamp
@varsha_venkat_ The "demythologize World War II" argument is really an effort to replace one set of narratives with another one for expressly political purposes. I think this campaign is counterproductive and borderline offensive. — PolitiTweet.org
Zack Beauchamp @zackbeauchamp
@varsha_venkat_ This seems wrong to me! Every nation has a set of national myths, understood not as falsehoods but as a set of shared narratives of the collective past. The question is not whether such a thing exists at all but which (true) elements of the past it should emphasize. — PolitiTweet.org
Zack Beauchamp @zackbeauchamp
@stephenwertheim @jenszalai Ah, a second interesting point of disagreement! I don't think that having points of national moral consensus preclude cost-benefit arguments on contemporary policy issues. Really, they just work to tilt the argumentative playing field in one direction or another — PolitiTweet.org
Zack Beauchamp @zackbeauchamp
@jenszalai Maybe? But I think even this effect is dramatically overstated. The public didn't need the specter of Hitler to be angry about 9/11 or scared of international Communism — and public justification of bad wars centered far more on those things, directly, than analogy — PolitiTweet.org
Zack Beauchamp @zackbeauchamp
@jenszalai Maybe? But I think even that is dramatically understated. The public didn't need the specter of Hitler to be angry about 9/11 or scared of international Communism — and public justification of bad wars centered far more on those things, directly, than analogy — PolitiTweet.org
Zack Beauchamp @zackbeauchamp
@stephenwertheim @jenszalai Fast entering too complicated for Twitter land. But IMO US hegemony has had good and bad effects, with the good — significantly decreasing the risk of great power war — outweighing the bad. So to me, this is not a persuasive argument in the way that specifically enabling Iraq is — PolitiTweet.org
Zack Beauchamp @zackbeauchamp
@stephenwertheim @jenszalai This runs together two things: specific interventions that we agree are bad, and the overall desirability of US military hegemony (about which I take a much more positive view than you do) — PolitiTweet.org
Zack Beauchamp @zackbeauchamp
@jenszalai I don't agree with that as an empirical matter, as I argued in the thread https://t.co/nwMvvd64YA — PolitiTweet.org
Zack Beauchamp @zackbeauchamp
The effect of World War II mythology on America's future willingness to wage bad wars is also dramatically overstat… https://t.co/e3FfEde8Pc
Zack Beauchamp @zackbeauchamp
"The former president is said to have enjoyed watching the insurrection unfold from the dining room" https://t.co/vdPZ0ANaIv — PolitiTweet.org
Zack Beauchamp @zackbeauchamp
@grouchybagels I definitely think it's worth being more honest about what happened in the Pacific. But in elite liberal circles — like NYT readers — I'm honestly more concerned about overcorrection to allegedly dangerous mythology — PolitiTweet.org
Zack Beauchamp @zackbeauchamp
@jenszalai I saw that caveat of hers in your review — which is nicely done! — but my argument is that the harms of mythologizing that victory are overstated and the benefits significant. — PolitiTweet.org
Zack Beauchamp @zackbeauchamp
It is *equally correct* to say that Americans and the Soviets ended the Holocaust. Neither could have done it without the other, and pretending otherwise is pure propaganda. — PolitiTweet.org
Zack Beauchamp @zackbeauchamp
Yeah, this is a separate argument that annoys me. It is true that the Soviets sacrificed far more than the Western Allies. It's also true that, absent US intervention, the Soviets would not have been able to decisively defeat the Nazis. https://t.co/cl8s9UJH4x — PolitiTweet.org
Zack Beauchamp @zackbeauchamp
@charlie_simpson @janecoaston Oh this looks fascinating — PolitiTweet.org
Zack Beauchamp @zackbeauchamp
But fundamentally, I'd like authors of books like these to meet a Holocaust survivor in the eyes and tell them to their face that the country is wrong to celebrate its role in their survival. — PolitiTweet.org
