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Conor Friedersdorf @conor64
https://t.co/uAM87cKXM7 — PolitiTweet.org
Conor Friedersdorf @conor64
@hiltzikm because most people had no idea that it was a firing offense, and if people keep getting fired for stuff they didn't even know would get them fired the chilling effect problem is much bigger. — PolitiTweet.org
Conor Friedersdorf @conor64
@hiltzikm For example, if you Tweeted that you ate a delicious burger, and then a digital mob pushed to have you fired and your editors caved to pressure, that would strike me as unjust, partly because I don't think talking about eating meat should be a fireable offense but also — PolitiTweet.org
Conor Friedersdorf @conor64
@hiltzikm The question isn't whether there is *some* speech that can, for example, get one fired, but which speech, and whether the set at the moment is 1) knowable or not 2) just. — PolitiTweet.org
Conor Friedersdorf @conor64
@hiltzikm Those of us trying to move an unproductive conversation toward a more constructive one — PolitiTweet.org
Conor Friedersdorf @conor64
@jduffyrice Instead of getting sidetracked into an argument about Bari and Bret I would love to hear your viewpoint on where the line is beyond which speech can justly result in someone getting publicly shamed or shunned or fired. — PolitiTweet.org
Conor Friedersdorf @conor64
RT @sam_d_1995: it blows my mind that millionaire homeowners in SF think that “finders keepers” is an appropriate policy response to a mass… — PolitiTweet.org
Conor Friedersdorf @conor64
@CoreyAtad Of course there can be. — PolitiTweet.org
Conor Friedersdorf @conor64
@CoreyAtad Of course one *could* articulate a coherent account of what should be beyond the pale. I certainly could. The question is, has anyone on the *we have it basically correct now* side of the current debate done so. And I bet someone has tried! I'm not sure why you are policing the q — PolitiTweet.org
Conor Friedersdorf @conor64
@CoreyAtad I agree that it's not at all clear. That doesn't mean there's no one who has tried to articulate such an account. — PolitiTweet.org
Conor Friedersdorf @conor64
@GeofftheJohnson @ericowensdc What substantive question did you pose? — PolitiTweet.org
Conor Friedersdorf @conor64
@CoreyAtad I have done that, and again, my question was an attempt to get away from labels and toward particulars, but you seem very upset by it — PolitiTweet.org
Conor Friedersdorf @conor64
@CoreyAtad So in your view a person worried about getting publicly shamed or fired for their speech has no coherent account to consult of what might trigger that result? That is my view, but I'm surprised it is yours. Not sure why such questions are trolling. — PolitiTweet.org
Conor Friedersdorf @conor64
@AdamSchiavone @ericowensdc I would argue that America's Puritan zealotry waxes and wanes and that we are in fact witnessing a waxing period right now that resembles in some ways a religious revival or "great awokening" — PolitiTweet.org
Conor Friedersdorf @conor64
@CoreyAtad My question is not *what do they think is cancel culture.* My question is, what is their notion of what warrants stigma, public shaming, or job loss? What taboos do they want enforced and how do they define them? — PolitiTweet.org
Conor Friedersdorf @conor64
@CoreyAtad Again, that *is* exactly what I am doing: asking if anyone on one side of the debate has sketched out their views on the actual things themselves. — PolitiTweet.org
Conor Friedersdorf @conor64
@GeofftheJohnson @ericowensdc Geoff: you have no idea what you're talking about. — PolitiTweet.org
Conor Friedersdorf @conor64
@ericowensdc It seems obvious that some societies/cultures shame to excess. One might embrace many of the values of the Puritans, for example, and still believe that their zealotry was alarming. — PolitiTweet.org
Conor Friedersdorf @conor64
@CoreyAtad That's what I am trying to do. I have seen moves to add particularity to "cancel culture--Rauch, for example--and I am wondering if anyone has tried to add particularity to the countervailing position. Why does that upset you? — PolitiTweet.org
Conor Friedersdorf @conor64
Has anyone in the "actually, it's just consequence culture, and that's good" camp sketched out their notion of what is and isn't beyond the pale with enough particularity that one can at least identify the edge cases? — PolitiTweet.org
Conor Friedersdorf @conor64
@wesyang @adamdavidson Nevertheless, this pops up everywhere from elementary schools to corporate DEI trainings as if accepting it as truth is a requirement for "cultural competency," to borrow a buzz phrase that doesn't strike most people as nearly as creepy as it should — PolitiTweet.org
Conor Friedersdorf @conor64
@wesyang @adamdavidson This is another such image, striking to me for the number of contested questions it begs and the racist interpretations the analogy arguably suggests. Who decided this is what those concepts mean? It's hard to pin down an answer https://t.co/pKP0Z2tDkA — PolitiTweet.org
Conor Friedersdorf @conor64
@wesyang @adamdavidson It's one of a number of activist-created graphics that pop up all over the place in a way sort of like Ricky the Raindrop in my youth. — PolitiTweet.org
Conor Friedersdorf @conor64
@wesyang @adamdavidson I would just say that if you're not familiar with the genderbread person, whether you are pro, con, or neutral about it, then you probably haven't paid close enough attention to curriculum battles in k through 8 to understand the grievances on both sides. — PolitiTweet.org
Conor Friedersdorf @conor64
@adamdavidson @wesyang That's how I feel about Marx. But I don't think you are who he has in mind with the successor ideology. — PolitiTweet.org
Conor Friedersdorf @conor64
@wesyang @adamdavidson And this is due in large part to simply not tuning into the conversation that has fascinated you and I for some years now — PolitiTweet.org
Conor Friedersdorf @conor64
@wesyang @adamdavidson I think there are a lot of liberals who don't recognize the degree or seriousness of attacks on liberalism from the left, so much so that one can repeat characterizations of Critical Race Theory that are direct Henry Louis Gates quotes and they will perceive a right wing strawman — PolitiTweet.org
Conor Friedersdorf @conor64
@adamdavidson @wesyang I'd be curious to hear you wrestle with it, and I'm not sure what I will ultimately conclude about it, but it is a formidable thesis that can't be waved away. — PolitiTweet.org
Conor Friedersdorf @conor64
@adamdavidson @wesyang I'm not sure if you watched the video, but Wes' writing and commentary on The Successor Ideology, agree with it or not, is neither vague nor poorly defined. It's a quite detailed and fleshed out account of what's going on, much more so than most commentators offer. — PolitiTweet.org
Conor Friedersdorf @conor64
RT @sullydish: I loved this. — PolitiTweet.org
