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Conor Friedersdorf @conor64
@LouisatheLast And while I'm happy to respect those two senses of what it means to be non-binary and others still, for purposes of early childhood education, I wonder (e.g) if teachers are prepared to answer followup questions, and how they should answer them — PolitiTweet.org
Conor Friedersdorf @conor64
@LouisatheLast I've conversed with people who self-identify as non-binary who feel a powerful internal sense of being neither man nor woman, and others who have no such internal sense but rather believe we're all a mix of feminine and masculine, testosterone and estrogen — PolitiTweet.org
Conor Friedersdorf @conor64
@LouisatheLast I think part of it is confusing to me because when I talk to different people about what they mean by the words you used they give me different answers, so I'm never totally sure what a given person means without conversing more. For example, — PolitiTweet.org
Conor Friedersdorf @conor64
@SzMarsupial I am trying to understand what others believe, and indeed what I believe, about teaching complicated concepts to kids. That you erroneously presume a nefarious hidden agenda is your problem, not mine. — PolitiTweet.org
Conor Friedersdorf @conor64
@banalplay of bad faith is disappointing, but par for the course on this hell site. — PolitiTweet.org
Conor Friedersdorf @conor64
@banalplay I wouldn't say I believe there's "harm" at introducing a word kids don't understand, if in fact 4 year olds won't understand non-binary.Elsewhere in the thread I said it's more like going beyond introducing triangles and talking about sines and tangents. Your presumption — PolitiTweet.org
Conor Friedersdorf @conor64
@cseguin03 Could I draw you out a bit? If I had a kid, I wouldn't object to them hearing any of this either. I also wouldn't expect them to understand "non-binary" at 4 because — PolitiTweet.org
Conor Friedersdorf @conor64
@manyspaceships I find the implication here very strange--if a 5 year old *doesn't* understand what non-binary or genderqueer means do you think that makes them an idiot? I don't! — PolitiTweet.org
Conor Friedersdorf @conor64
@saucymincks @britnidlc That all makes total sense to me. — PolitiTweet.org
Conor Friedersdorf @conor64
@isaiah_bb My only claim here was about "non-binary" and my sense that pre-K kids are too young to understand what it means. I think they can understand that something like what's below and support having it in the curriculum while mentioning "gay" and "lesbian" https://t.co/u87KQfBsEr — PolitiTweet.org
Conor Friedersdorf @conor64
@tryptique @ndrichardson My previous thread asked social conservatives about the first part of the statement. A later thread asked progressives about the nonbinary part. My questions are focused because I am trying to understand how beliefs break down across different ideological cohorts. — PolitiTweet.org
Conor Friedersdorf @conor64
@tchotchotch Why? What context would you like? I'd be happy to provide it. — PolitiTweet.org
Conor Friedersdorf @conor64
@krenshar_posts How so? What about teaching that there are families with gay and lesbian parents and also holding off on introducing the concept of nonbinary until after age 5 implies that attending a wedding ceremony is inappropriate? I don't get your chain of thought at all. — PolitiTweet.org
Conor Friedersdorf @conor64
@isaiah_bb That is not, in fact, my belief, and the question is not even about the gay/lesbian part of this curriculum. The question is whether pre-k students are old enough to meaningfully understand what nonbinary means. I'm not sure how that implicates what you said? — PolitiTweet.org
Conor Friedersdorf @conor64
@tryptique @ndrichardson I'm confused. I share your belief that we should teach kids that families with gay or lesbian parents are just as loving. What does that have to do with the age at which kids can understand what nonbinary means, whatever that age is? — PolitiTweet.org
Conor Friedersdorf @conor64
@sam_shaw Understanding what? — PolitiTweet.org
Conor Friedersdorf @conor64
@ThinkItThroug17 I don't see how this sexualizes children? — PolitiTweet.org
Conor Friedersdorf @conor64
@gracels I agree that telling her the truth is best and haven't written anything implying any other approach. — PolitiTweet.org
Conor Friedersdorf @conor64
@kath2cats That's a cute story, and I agree that some kids know who they are very young, and of course others do not have a sense in kindergarten of what they will be like years later, but regardless, this seems somewhat different than assessing what analytic concepts to introduce when — PolitiTweet.org
Conor Friedersdorf @conor64
@jbaumann035 @ConheadyA I mean, I would introduce triangles to a kindergarten class but I would delay introducing sine and cosine until an older grade because I don't think kindergarteners could understand that concept. I may be wrong about nonbinary but it isn't like there are no things like that! — PolitiTweet.org
Conor Friedersdorf @conor64
@britnidlc sometimes the conversation circles back to a place where I'm told they know best, and I'm still missing that piece of the puzzle. — PolitiTweet.org
Conor Friedersdorf @conor64
@britnidlc would seem to be heavily influenced by what they understand those words to mean, which in turn is coming from parents and teachers and peers, not an innate felt sense of what words mean. So I try to understand what adults mean by the words and what we teach kids, but then — PolitiTweet.org
Conor Friedersdorf @conor64
@britnidlc I agree that they know themselves, and should be supported whoever they are, and over the years they will of course experiment with different identities. I think my confusion here is that, especially when they are very young, the words that map onto what feels right to them — PolitiTweet.org
Conor Friedersdorf @conor64
@AaronCampeau I don't get it. Are you saying that if a kindergartener doesn't understand the concept of "non-binary" that makes them stupid? — PolitiTweet.org
Conor Friedersdorf @conor64
@britnidlc "you're great just the way you are and there's no one right way to be a boy or a girl." To be clear, I have nothing against you or others identifying as non-binary. How would you answer a 5 year old's questions about whether they are a boy or girl or nonbinary? — PolitiTweet.org
Conor Friedersdorf @conor64
@britnidlc Could you help me understand (as someone without children) the thing about this that I don't understand right now? I would articulate it this way: my instinct, if a five year old came to me and asked, "How do I know if I am a boy or a girl or neither?" would be to say — PolitiTweet.org
Conor Friedersdorf @conor64
@gracels This is from a pre-K curriculum at a public school. — PolitiTweet.org
Conor Friedersdorf @conor64
@TeresaDeLuca19 I get that, and in one sense it seems to me that no one fully fits within a binary/everyone is on a spectrum of stereotypical or normative likes or behaviors. It also seems like something more is meant when people say nonbinary, but I'm not sure and I'm trying to figure that out — PolitiTweet.org
Conor Friedersdorf @conor64
@ECMcLaughlin @yashar the way those concepts are stereotypically constructed (e.g. likes playing with trucks and dolls) or something else, perhaps an internal sense that may be unfamiliar to me? How would you articulate it? — PolitiTweet.org
Conor Friedersdorf @conor64
@ECMcLaughlin @yashar I'm not sure why you presume I am anxious. I am trying to understand both what a curriculum means and how people with different ideological beliefs feel about it. W/r/t you kid saying “a little bit girl and a little bit boy" does that mean — PolitiTweet.org
