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Conor Friedersdorf @conor64
@WFKARS I lack your experience but share that instinct, too, and have been saying books like this https://t.co/67WQ4Nhbg8 that introduce the fact of difference and the value of inclusion without the complication of labels might be preferable for what I perceive to be similar reasons — PolitiTweet.org
Conor Friedersdorf @conor64
@studiostoicheff I'm broadly sympathetic to that, in that I think the LGBTQ inclusive education of today is much preferable to what I got in the 1980s. That doesn't really answer the question of what pre-K kids are likely to understand and whether nonbinary is one of those things though. — PolitiTweet.org
Conor Friedersdorf @conor64
@3vanSutton Sure, I agree the exchange might well go just like that. And from that I do not conclude that the child came away with an understanding of what non-binary means, which was the only reservation I expressed about that passage: that it's probably a subject best left for after pre-K. — PolitiTweet.org
Conor Friedersdorf @conor64
@brooklynmarie Are you unaware that I am referring directly to lesson plans that a public school posted online, circulated among teachers, and shared with parents? — PolitiTweet.org
Conor Friedersdorf @conor64
@WFKARS You're not very discerning RE good faith. That said, I'd still like to know how you'd advise parents how to best talk about these matters. What would you advise as the best way to answer the question of a 4-year-old asking, "Am I a boy or a girl or nonbinary?" — PolitiTweet.org
Conor Friedersdorf @conor64
@gracels @NarsGlinley @Adequate_Scott That *is* the Google cloud site for District 65! https://t.co/NUgkAivkyl — PolitiTweet.org
Conor Friedersdorf @conor64
While I don't expect social conservatives will be satisfied by this, one book I encountered and praised before was Julian Is a Mermaid, https://t.co/67WQ4Nhbg8 which, IMHO, manages to convey both difference and inclusion to very young kids without any potentially confusing labels — PolitiTweet.org
Conor Friedersdorf @conor64
@brooklynmarie What are you talking about? — PolitiTweet.org
Conor Friedersdorf @conor64
@CrassKicker @gracels @NarsGlinley @Adequate_Scott Public. District 65, in Evanston, which I have reported on before. — PolitiTweet.org
Conor Friedersdorf @conor64
@gracels @NarsGlinley @Adequate_Scott How is it non-responsive to literally link to the specific school district web site where it is posted? — PolitiTweet.org
Conor Friedersdorf @conor64
@banalplay I'm a social liberal, Lena, not a social conservative. — PolitiTweet.org
Conor Friedersdorf @conor64
@GalvinAlmanza 1) for kids that young, the pre-school and parents themselves have presumably done a lot of the social construction. 2) Regardless, I'm not confident the groundwork in girl/boy & social construction of gender is sufficient at that point to introduce a rejection of trad concepts — PolitiTweet.org
Conor Friedersdorf @conor64
@GalvinAlmanza So, it seems like non-binary requires a sense of what "boy/man" and "girl/woman" mean, including how they've been socially constructed, and then the idea of rejecting that binary. My instinct was to think of a couple complications: — PolitiTweet.org
Conor Friedersdorf @conor64
@Adequate_Scott @gracels @NarsGlinley I got it from the Evanston school district web site. — PolitiTweet.org
Conor Friedersdorf @conor64
@GalvinAlmanza I agree that telling kids that sometimes boys love boys and girls love girls is fine and good. What I am unclear on is whether 4 year olds are old enough to understand nonbinary, which doesn't really square with your critique, whatever your answer — PolitiTweet.org
Conor Friedersdorf @conor64
So the organization's avowed goal is police abolition... and it's pursuing that by buying multi-million dollar real estate and celebrating Biden/Harris? This makes no sense. And this is the wing of the movement that Campaign Zero apologized to? https://t.co/mJYdcoABUx https://t.co/VNgPtyjGJU — PolitiTweet.org
Conor Friedersdorf @conor64
@gracels @NarsGlinley @Adequate_Scott You people are pathologically uncharitable. I wonder if, being shown to be wrongly so, it will occasion any self-reflection. https://t.co/MGQ8OFiywm — PolitiTweet.org
Conor Friedersdorf @conor64
@isaiah_bb Interesting, I can see the logic in that. — PolitiTweet.org
Conor Friedersdorf @conor64
@BoringDrew @banalplay I'm trying to understand both the substance of curriculum and an ascendant political debate. In doing so, I am asking questions and pondering answers from many different perspectives. This sort of inquiry is good and necessary, not objectionable. — PolitiTweet.org
Conor Friedersdorf @conor64
@mollyknefel I definitely favor efforts to make it so none of them feel alone. I really like this book as an example of that https://t.co/2Ub9ynMCPy Its avoidance of complicating labels and concepts strikes me as a better approach but I'm early on in thinking about this — PolitiTweet.org
Conor Friedersdorf @conor64
@isaiah_bb Honestly, I have no idea what I think the right age to introduce gravity at is but my instinct is pre-k could be too young? Like, at least some concepts are best delayed. Which ones? Why? That's what I am trying to think through. (And to see where others are at too.) — PolitiTweet.org
Conor Friedersdorf @conor64
@LouisatheLast "There’s a lot that doesn’t really need to be explained yet at that age." Well, okay, but that's what some critics of this lesson are saying––there's no need to try to explain what non-binary is at this age. Do you find that a reasonable position, agree or disagree, or a bad one? — PolitiTweet.org
Conor Friedersdorf @conor64
@SamuelAshworth I'm glad you find it helpful. If your kid's followup question was "how do I know if I'm a boy or a girl or nonbinary?" how would you go about answering? Or if you don't know, what information would you seek out? — PolitiTweet.org
Conor Friedersdorf @conor64
@CombatCavScout @cseguin03 Roy, help me understand: if a 4 year old asked you, "How do I know if I am a boy or a girl or nonbinary?" how would you answer, including what all three identifiers mean? — PolitiTweet.org
Conor Friedersdorf @conor64
@miss_speech @isaiah_bb Wow, really? — PolitiTweet.org
Conor Friedersdorf @conor64
@isaiah_bb who tell me they are non-binary definitely mean by it something different than would any 4 year old. Probably there are cases of overlap too. — PolitiTweet.org
Conor Friedersdorf @conor64
@isaiah_bb seems distinct, when I think about it, from talking to kids about how they themselves feel. For the latter conversation, it would seem like the groundwork is a sense of what it means to be a boy, or a girl, before you can get to "neither" and at least some of the adults I talk to — PolitiTweet.org
Conor Friedersdorf @conor64
@isaiah_bb I think I'm reacting to two separate distinctions. One is, in fact, the word non-binary, which introduces the concept of binaries, a complicating layer to explain, I think. But also, pointing to different families and saying some adults are this way, some are that — PolitiTweet.org
Conor Friedersdorf @conor64
@isaiah_bb My narrow argument was a sense that 4 year olds were too young to grasp non-binary. I will get back to you with more when I have found someone who can walk me through what kids that age do and don't understand — PolitiTweet.org
Conor Friedersdorf @conor64
@isaiah_bb I do think that's easier to understand — PolitiTweet.org
