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Conor Friedersdorf @conor64
@emily_rj @brooklynmarie I said Pre-K because what I posted was taken from the pre-k curriculum — PolitiTweet.org
Conor Friedersdorf @conor64
@CygnusMaximus That seems wrong to me. I think very young kids grasp some physiological differences, e.g. the parent who can breast feed me and the parent that can't — PolitiTweet.org
Conor Friedersdorf @conor64
@shoeleatherkate Would that difference have been made by exposure to difference and affirmation of it, as in e.g. Julian Is a Mermaid? https://t.co/67WQ4Nhbg8 Or do you see extra value-added in explicitly introducing the label/concept nonbinary at that age? — PolitiTweet.org
Conor Friedersdorf @conor64
@brooklynmarie How does that context bear on the question I raised, which was whether 4-year-olds would or wouldn't understand the concept of non-binary? No one disputes that there is much in the curriculum that is age appropriate, as I argued myself in prior Tweets. — PolitiTweet.org
Conor Friedersdorf @conor64
@uppittynegress @MelanieMoore WTF? It *is* in the pre-k lesson plan. https://t.co/vJGqiE2NSf You don't have to take my word for it, go to that link, scroll down to learning plan, and look at the teacher prompt — PolitiTweet.org
Conor Friedersdorf @conor64
@TaylorLorenz A kind of related thing I'm trying to puzzle through is how to teach kids about constructed things when they are so young that you are the ones constructing the socially constructed things. Anyway, glad you (and all the rest of you) shared your sense of this! — PolitiTweet.org
Conor Friedersdorf @conor64
@TaylorLorenz *that particular concept* when we hear it bakes in our preconceived notions of gender and gender as a spectrum and what boys and girls are, and that if you were starting without that foundation (w/o an understanding of the binary, if you will) nonbinary would be hard to grok — PolitiTweet.org
Conor Friedersdorf @conor64
@TaylorLorenz I think you're right that there's something to the idea *since young kids don't have preconceived notions they really do get concepts*––that is, our preconceived notions make it harder for us to get some things. But I think my instinct, applying that to nonbinary, is that — PolitiTweet.org
Conor Friedersdorf @conor64
@LouisatheLast I don't see how this follows? — PolitiTweet.org
Conor Friedersdorf @conor64
@RaffishPaddy It is in the pre-k curriculum of a public school district. And my point has been articulated again and again: my tentative belief is that 4 year olds are too young to understand this particular concept, and I wanted to get a sense of what others thought. — PolitiTweet.org
Conor Friedersdorf @conor64
@isaiah_bb It certainly makes a very useful tool for hearing different perspectives much less pleasant to use in a way that causes many people to abandon it entirely. I think that is unfortunate. — PolitiTweet.org
Conor Friedersdorf @conor64
@isaiah_bb I agree that some people get mad because they have erroneous assumptions about my beliefs. I disagree that I have not given reasons to think otherwise, and watching how many people erroneously attack others on this website, I don't think there's really any way around it. — PolitiTweet.org
Conor Friedersdorf @conor64
@oneunderscore__ Instead, you seem to have reduced this issue to its worst actors and to judge others by whether they align with the Good side or the Bad side––you're acting like Chris Rufo, in that sense. — PolitiTweet.org
Conor Friedersdorf @conor64
@oneunderscore__ Journalists should also understand that, beyond the very online actors who talk about this subject, some in bad faith or while stoking moral panic, millions of parents are wrestling earnestly with how best to teach these subjects, and one job of journalists is to help them do so. — PolitiTweet.org
Conor Friedersdorf @conor64
@gracels @xjian3432jklp @CrassKicker @NarsGlinley @Adequate_Scott The apology is owed to me, not that person, because you falsely suggested I had no evidence this was actually being taught in pre-K, when in fact I possessed extremely solid evidence for that all along. *Silence is an admission*, you said. But was it? (It was not.) — PolitiTweet.org
Conor Friedersdorf @conor64
@xjian3432jklp @gracels @CrassKicker @NarsGlinley @Adequate_Scott I'm sure an apology will be forthcoming now. — PolitiTweet.org
Conor Friedersdorf @conor64
@jonesm80 @SzMarsupial I know myself to be intensely interested in the opinions of others, Matt. That's why I solicit them, read them, engage them, and run a newsletter at The Atlantic highlighting them. Have you considered that others know their own motivations better than you do? — PolitiTweet.org
Conor Friedersdorf @conor64
@earational I share your sense that gay is a concept a 4 or 5 year old can understand as much as they can understand straight and if I were writing the curriculums I too would have that part for sure. — PolitiTweet.org
Conor Friedersdorf @conor64
@jonesm80 @SzMarsupial I'm eager to be informed about how a diverse range of people, including very online progressives, think about this issue, and this is helping me understand and consider their perspectives, albeit at the cost of dealing with a small cohort of uncharitable jerks and trolls. — PolitiTweet.org
Conor Friedersdorf @conor64
You should all watch Deadwood. — PolitiTweet.org
Comfortably Smug @ComfortablySmug
Should I watch Deadwood?
Conor Friedersdorf @conor64
@AoifeCath @LouisatheLast You're wrong about that. — PolitiTweet.org
Conor Friedersdorf @conor64
@ShanelleLittle Evanston — PolitiTweet.org
Conor Friedersdorf @conor64
@SzMarsupial see why doubts about this as a matter for specifically pre-K curriculum is contemptible, as you are treating it. — PolitiTweet.org
Conor Friedersdorf @conor64
@SzMarsupial My tentative belief was not that it is not okay to talk to kids about non-binary people––it was that 4 year olds are too young to understand the concept. I suspect we agree that 2 year-olds are unable to understand the concept and at some point after 4 kids are able. I'm don't — PolitiTweet.org
Conor Friedersdorf @conor64
@oneunderscore__ I expect some percentage of Twitter users to be anti-intellectual––that is, to denigrate people for trying to tease out what people believe about matters of public controversy and why and pondering their perspectives––but it is disappointing when journalists behave that way — PolitiTweet.org
Conor Friedersdorf @conor64
@CraigStiles @TeresaDeLuca19 The point is that when adults use "nonbinary" there is no one thing all those users of the term mean. If you speak with different people who identify as nonbinary they have different accounts. — PolitiTweet.org
Conor Friedersdorf @conor64
@mattyglesias @DistractedAnna I have weak to no preexisting beliefs about stuff like this--anything about kids younger than my nephew, really--and I keep hoping I will find something solid upon which to ground some beliefs. — PolitiTweet.org
Conor Friedersdorf @conor64
@samjcohn To be clear, my question was whether 4 year olds would understand the term/concept nonbinary, not whether we should be inclusive of all kinds of love and families and mention words like gay. — PolitiTweet.org
Conor Friedersdorf @conor64
@miss_speech @banalplay That is a useful thing to keep in mind, thank you. — PolitiTweet.org
Conor Friedersdorf @conor64
@tchotchotch The curriculum of a Chicago-area suburb public school, posted online by the school. — PolitiTweet.org
