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Conor Friedersdorf @conor64
RT @cathyjfree: My latest for The Post: These Texas girls didn’t bring home macrame plant holders from summer camp. Instead they built gree… — PolitiTweet.org
Conor Friedersdorf @conor64
@ijbailey I for one would say that racism has definitely had real negative health effects. — PolitiTweet.org
Conor Friedersdorf @conor64
@ijbailey everyone is against parents engaging in sustained verbal abuse of their children. The opposite perspective doesn't in fact come up. The speech debate doesn't in fact touch this subject in a way that has real-world life changing effects. — PolitiTweet.org
Conor Friedersdorf @conor64
@ijbailey You wrote, "I’ve repeatedly told you these were the kinds of things I’m talking about and laid out the real-world life changing effects. I’m not talking some hypothetical public debate/discourse this doesn’t come up in." But as far as I can tell, — PolitiTweet.org
Conor Friedersdorf @conor64
@ijbailey You said you knew it when you saw it, and you offered other things, like heightened heart rate, that you then agreed didn't necessarily mean violence. I don't think you can offer a definition that includes what you want without illustrating the perils of over-inclusiveness. — PolitiTweet.org
Conor Friedersdorf @conor64
@ijbailey "Violence" defined how? — PolitiTweet.org
Conor Friedersdorf @conor64
@ijbailey There are people who advocate for criminalizing hate speech, for punching Richard Spencer, even for killing Rushdie. Who is advocating for parents verbally abusing children? — PolitiTweet.org
Conor Friedersdorf @conor64
@ijbailey I am not going to engage with you anymore on that point until you offer a definition of violence. — PolitiTweet.org
Conor Friedersdorf @conor64
@ijbailey Can you point to a single commentator, even at a fringe outlet, who is against stigmatizing the verbal abuse of children by their guardians? I don't understand how this example bears on any of the actual debates about free speech culture or law that are happening in America. — PolitiTweet.org
Conor Friedersdorf @conor64
@ijbailey 1. Parents or guardians verbally denigrating young children is both an outlier in terms of capacity of mere speech to harm & not a kind of speech that ever comes up in debates on public discourse limits. 2. Sufficiently hard fists everyday *would* do more harm than words. — PolitiTweet.org
Conor Friedersdorf @conor64
This is an underappreciated point. To a large though not total extent, we can control how we react to words, especially with practice and reflection. Socializing people to believe otherwise and depriving them entirely of those tools *harms them*. — PolitiTweet.org
Eric Kaufmann @epkaufm
People often experience words as violence because they’ve been indoctrinated to do so. Laws should be based on untu… https://t.co/RmrpySYrag
Conor Friedersdorf @conor64
@athie_gnome @KralcTrebor @XBillups @ijbailey Not sure why you find that unbelievable. — PolitiTweet.org
Conor Friedersdorf @conor64
@athie_gnome @KralcTrebor @XBillups @ijbailey Then yes. — PolitiTweet.org
Conor Friedersdorf @conor64
@athie_gnome @XBillups @KralcTrebor @ijbailey "The fact"? In fact, it did not address the controversy about Rowling's views on trans issues. — PolitiTweet.org
Conor Friedersdorf @conor64
@athie_gnome @XBillups @KralcTrebor @ijbailey The Harper's letter is mostky correct and sensible, not wretched. — PolitiTweet.org
Conor Friedersdorf @conor64
@athie_gnome @KralcTrebor @XBillups @ijbailey Different people define the term differently. I asked for your definition. Regardless of definition, I am confident journalists with large social media followings encounter more hate speech than the typical person. I'm frequently horrified by what I see my colleagues subjected to — PolitiTweet.org
Conor Friedersdorf @conor64
@KralcTrebor @athie_gnome @XBillups @ijbailey I am curious to learn if "I hope you die of cancer" or death threats qualify as hate speech for the OP. — PolitiTweet.org
Conor Friedersdorf @conor64
@athie_gnome @XBillups @KralcTrebor @ijbailey If you clarify how you define hate speech I can clarify too. — PolitiTweet.org
Conor Friedersdorf @conor64
@athie_gnome @XBillups @KralcTrebor @ijbailey If it was a function of the company I keep I would never encounter hate speech. — PolitiTweet.org
Conor Friedersdorf @conor64
@XBillups @KralcTrebor @ijbailey @athie_gnome I suspect that by virtue of profession, audience size, and the nature of the Internet, the signatories to the Harper's letter, whose free speech positions I largely share, encounter far more hate speech than the average person. — PolitiTweet.org
Conor Friedersdorf @conor64
@XBillups @KralcTrebor @ijbailey @athie_gnome I encounter hate speech constantly. — PolitiTweet.org
Conor Friedersdorf @conor64
@XBillups @KralcTrebor @ijbailey @athie_gnome I think that he can't offer a definition because it would expose the fact that many more things would be classified as violence than he can reasonably defend. — PolitiTweet.org
Conor Friedersdorf @conor64
@athie_gnome @KralcTrebor @XBillups @ijbailey Even incitement is clearly distinguishable from violence. I'd much rather you try to invite others to stab me to death than to stab me to death! But if we were just talking about incitement here I wouldn't care that much about the distinction. We're not though. — PolitiTweet.org
Conor Friedersdorf @conor64
@BitterswtBunny @mattyglesias @JenSeniorNY But men don't seem to have changed much. The divergence is women getting more liberal, not men getting less liberal. — PolitiTweet.org
Conor Friedersdorf @conor64
@XBillups @KralcTrebor @ijbailey @athie_gnome So if I intend to hurt your feelings by telling you your haircut is ugly, and your feelings are hurt, is that violence? It meets both prongs of your definition — PolitiTweet.org
Conor Friedersdorf @conor64
@XBillups @KralcTrebor @ijbailey @athie_gnome Okay, but what's your definition? — PolitiTweet.org
Conor Friedersdorf @conor64
@XBillups @TTtheNegligible @ijbailey If the choice were being stabbed in the gut with a knife or subjected to hurtful words what would you choose? — PolitiTweet.org
Conor Friedersdorf @conor64
@XBillups @KralcTrebor @ijbailey @athie_gnome I don't understand what the screenshot says. What is your definition? — PolitiTweet.org
Conor Friedersdorf @conor64
@XBillups @TTtheNegligible @ijbailey Not all violence is more hurtful than all speech. I'd prefer a light slap in the face to my best friends telling me I disgust them. But violence as a category is indeed far more harmful than hurtful speech as a category. — PolitiTweet.org
Conor Friedersdorf @conor64
@XBillups @KralcTrebor @ijbailey @athie_gnome Again, it is incoherent because *no definition is being offered* not because I disagree with the definition that is being offered. I asked for a definition and got *I know it when I see it.* How would you define violence, Ryan? — PolitiTweet.org
